i considered just letting it slide, because there’s no need going all drama on this,
but this is making me uncomfortable.
i mean that’s the situation, right: you used “i have survivor friends who told me” as an argument for your opinions, and i said that actually this kind of thing - using survivors as arguments in discussions - is making me as survivor pretty uncomfortable and has for some time.
i objected and tried to explain why i object:
-> my survivor friends told me
okay, i’m sorry, this might take me a bit further away from the topic of gamzee, but this has been such a thing in fandom lately, and, i just -
i don’t think it’s such a good idea to use ‘survivors of abuse’ as pro or contra argument for certain interpretations of canon, especially if it’s not yourself you’re talking about but ‘friends’.
from what i can see, different survivors have very different and all equally valid opinions on the matter - both on gamzee and on the quality of hussie’s writing re: gamzee (and gamrezi) - since we’re all different people with different stories and different outlooks (obviously).
actually i might have seen more ‘allies’ telling people (including survivors) what to feel about gamzee and terezi because of ‘survivors of abuse’ than i’ve seen survivors talking about the situation, which i find upsetting. i even know survivors who found the way this was discussed in fandom to be so toxic that they rather said nothing, even though they had opinions and things to say, and who could be more qualified to talk about this than us, if we’re talking about ‘RL abuse survivors and how homestuck and homestuck meta makes them feel’, right?
lots of stuff has been pushed in fandom after the last updates that i personally didn’t like either!
i do relate more to terezi than to gamzee in that situation (i mean obviously) and i didn’t like people saying it’s impossible that gamzee was vulnerable ever during that showdown (including in that short moment after mindcontrol release) and that he was always in full control and that terezi never was in control, and i resented being told that that’s the only valid and survivor-friendly reading, since i didn’t feel it did me much service.
i also didn’t like the wrong use of the word “gaslighting”, since gaslighting is a specific term for a specific form of emotional abuse (systematically make a person believe they are “crazy”), and tricking someone into dropping their weapon is a very dirty fighting trick, but gaslighting is not the correct term and i don’t think that kind of misinformation about abuse people learn via fandom is helpful, ultimately, for abuse survivors.
i also didn’t like at all how terezi going !!!! and “what have i done” was somehow not seen as terezi having a seer and justice moment there, but as terezi being scared of gamzee because he abused her (like hell she was scared, imo).
people rooting for terezi when she stabbed gamzee and rooting for vengeance made me uncomfortable, because while i have had interesting discussions re: veangeance with survivors, homestuck fans going “you go terezi, stab him some more, he deserves it, lol” are not exactly the quality of discussion i crave there and i rarely felt people really were interested in talking about terezi’s feelings and situation anyway, so i didn’t feel supported or anything.
so basically as you can see i have lots of complaints with the way this discussion was handled in fandom, and specifically the discussion that was “for the sake of survivors” and “for the sake of terezi” and “against abuse-apologism”, thus the discussions that i should be grateful for, since it’s totally for my sake, but just happen to not be.
in a way, that’s worse than “it’s all terezi’s fault for being such a bitch” and etc, because these people are obviously assholes, while the people who proudly advocate for me, while in the same breath telling me i’m bad for feeling what i feel (see also: the first comments and reblogs omg lol, that was fast) believe they are doing it for people like me & the good cause, which is just so, wow.
(and this is not even going into how terezi made a clear distinction between vengeance and justice and opposed the former and how imo this was not her enacting vengeance for her own sake, but trying to rectify her ‘failure’ of not having brought gamzee down for his crimes as she might feel was her responsibility, since terezi tends to feel many things are her responsibility)
SO BASICALLY what i’m saying re: survivors and re: terezi is, if you’re a survivor, please have your opinion and your feelings and talk about them or don’t, just, whatever is best for you - and if you’re an ally trying to help, keep in mind that we are not a monolith to base arguments on, and to be careful when talking about/for survivors presumably in the name of survivors but not really i guess? (this actually also is true if you are a survivor, it’s still important to remember that other survivors might feel differently that that’s okay, too).
like really, people telling me how terezi must have felt and deciding what is respectful or not respectful of terezi are way more upsetting than people who think “what if gamzee was mindcontrolled all along”, because, yeah, what if, so what? terezi’s story is still terezi’s story, at least how i see it.
(but then i really had to learn that my story is my story and does not depend on how people perceive the stories of people who hurt me, idk, that’s sth really important to learn imo)
okay that was a long tangent, sorry. i know you mean well, and you didn’t do all of those things here and when you did you weren’t as gross as i saw other fans being, so please don’t take this as being about you alone, i guess i just accumulated lots of upset about this.
and now you’re telling me things like “but my other survivor friends told me how that’s okay to do though” and “i don’t want to talk about this at all any more”,
or you’re telling me how for some people gamzee-as-villain is non-negotiable, as if that was what i was trying to negotiate in that post the first place? i wasn’t.
(people’s right to find gamzee non-negociably terrible is non-negotiable i’ve always been with you on that)
and i mean i really don’t want to start huge drama over this, and i totally understand not wanting drama and not wanting to talk more about this,
and b) i feel this is a valuable discussion to have in a fandom - how we treat ‘survivors’ in discussions.
and i feel that if it reaches even some people who might reconsider the next time they use survivors as object for their arguments, maybe without noticing, and they go “oh, wait, stop, maybe i should rather not”, then a lot is won, you know?
that’s why i’m talking about this, in the hope to improve that toxic atmosphere a bit, even if i realise that i’m also making people uncomfortable even bringing up that issue.
idk i hope it makes sense and sry for being so pushy about this, i just feel - either i let it slide but then i’ll be all bitter and complainy, or i just go confrontation mode and complain directly, which is better i guess!